Curse

Felbryn · Jul 25, 2006, 06:34 PM // 18:34

Quote:

Mysticism (PRIMARY ATTRIBUTE)
Whenever an Enchantment ends, you gain 3 Health for each rank of Mysticism and 1 Energy for every 2 ranks of Mysticism.

That's not entirely clear (in particular, it doesn't say what enchantments it applies to). But any plausible way I can think to read it, this seems to mean you can use low-cost enchantments on yourself (e.g. Reversal of Fortune) and regain at least their entire energy cost when they end (plus bonus healing in amounts similar to Divine Favor). If it applies to enchantments on anyone near you, this suggests you could have a D/Mo that can spam Reversal of Fortune, Guardian, Vigorous Spirit, etc. and gain energy in the process (admittedly, you lose Divine Favor).

Does that seem just a little over-powered? Is anyone seeing a more sensible way to read this description?

BauMan · Jul 25, 2006, 06:44 PM // 18:44

well your right, this is sorta overpowering but they also have a huge down fall then. If u can get rid of the enchantments mysticism wont really help. but yea i think the are very strong. o yea was anyone guees they were going to be sorta mo/w/e. that was a socker to me!

natus · Jul 25, 2006, 06:46 PM // 18:46

Source of this?

Felbryn · Jul 25, 2006, 06:48 PM // 18:48

Source: http://www.guildwars.com/events/inga...pvppreview.php

And it says when enchantments end, not when they expire, which suggests to me you still get the bonus if they're removed (this would be consistent with the wording on skills like Illusion of Weakness and Mantra of Recall). In fact, this looks like it might be specifically designed to counter enchantment removal, since it suggests that when an opponent strips your enchant, he also gives you enough energy to recast it. One would expect you'd need to block the enchantments entirely with something like Shadow Shroud or Well of the Profane.

Solar_Takfar · Jul 25, 2006, 06:50 PM // 18:50

If you "got rid" of the enchantment, the enchantment would end, and the player would still get the hp+en, anyway.

Ed: felbryn beat me to it :P
oh, and it's nice to see that list, thanks for the link.

Ed2: and it's got environment screenshots too, cool!
ah, and it's a pity spear mastery is a Para primary... would be cool to spear around with other classes. Even tho I know nothing about balance in the game, I'm already saying: they should swap it around for that leadership thing as primary, just for variety sake (spear rangers ftw or something) :P

Evilsod · Jul 25, 2006, 07:03 PM // 19:03

They're probably gonna change it soon.

You might aswell rename Protection Prayers to 'Dervish Energy Source'. Aegis...a potential of 8 energy for each character nearby, so in a normal 8man team thats 64 energy gained. RoF spamming... there is no way this is gonna be affect by all enchantments. You could just run a Dervish/Monk and spam RoF/Guardian till your face turns blue.

Felbryn · Jul 25, 2006, 07:04 PM // 19:04

It's actually very much breaking the standard pattern for them to make the weapon skill primary, and the one with the general passive effect not primary. One wonders if that wasn't a typographical error of some sort, although one would think they'd be pretty careful when posting class details for the first time. But that's another topic.

DieInBasra · Jul 25, 2006, 07:11 PM // 19:11

I think it's a cool idea. It's only enchantments cast on the dervish, and only he gets the heals. I think it's like, he get's boonprotted, and he gets a double divine favor heal, as well as more energy to keep himself alive(guessing on that one). Original means of making them easier to heal, and a cool way to manage energy.

nugzta · Jul 25, 2006, 07:19 PM // 19:19

What? Paragon's primary attribute is Spear Mastery. I mean like wth? axe mastery, markmanship, dagger mastery etc are not primary attributes, why this should be primary? There is no unique bonus for being paragon and perhaps this is the only mastery that rangers cant take advantage of.

Solar_Takfar · Jul 25, 2006, 07:21 PM // 19:21

ah yes, the mysticism bonus is most likely only for self-enchantments. And it makes sense, since the dervies will rely on them for protection.

One thing I didn't like much... earth prayers and wind prayers, they kind of kill the point of making a D/E.

CHUIU · Jul 25, 2006, 07:28 PM // 19:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by nugzta

What? Paragon's primary attribute is Spear Mastery. I mean like wth? axe mastery, markmanship, dagger mastery etc are not primary attributes, why this should be primary? There is no unique bonus for being paragon and perhaps this is the only mastery that rangers cant take advantage of.

I agree, I think Leadership should be the primary because of the potential abuse of it. But then again neither of us can see the skills or effectiveness of ANYTHING related to these yet so who are we to judge? Wait for the 28th before you start criticizing.

CHUIU · Jul 25, 2006, 07:51 PM // 19:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solar_Takfar

One thing I didn't like much... earth prayers and wind prayers, they kind of kill the point of making a D/E.

Yeah, because im sure they'll give Dervishes the skill shock.

wren e · Jul 25, 2006, 07:53 PM // 19:53

Personally, I think that it is an interesting move to make spear mastery the primary for paragons, this way it frees up the supporting skills to be able to be used by everyone. And I can't wait to try out a D/Mo smiter, almost reminds me of the good old days of ether renewal emo smiting.

Solar_Takfar · Jul 25, 2006, 08:25 PM // 20:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by CHUIU

Yeah, because im sure they'll give Dervishes the skill shock.

Probably not, and that's why I said it KIND OF (and not TOTALLY) kills the point of D/E. However, "shock" does not integrate well with the skillset of a melee fighter who relies a lot on enchantments to survive (the only point of carrying such a thing would be the knockdown, but the exhaustion would likely make defense very difficult to keep up; besides we don't even know if the scythe will have any skills which benefit from KD).

The Ele skills which would compliment well such a character would be armor-enhancing (armor of earth, magnetic armor, armor of mists), or PBAoE spells, which would overlap with the stuff the Dervish will already get by itself, which in turn -kinda- kills the point of having a D/E, as I said. You might still want to make one to use Conjure spells, but that'd be about it for the effective uses of D/E.

Anyway, this is all based on judging skills we already know. Who knows, perhaps there will be some point in combining earth magic and earth prayers, for example, but right now it seems unlikely.

Felbryn · Jul 25, 2006, 08:30 PM // 20:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by DieInBasra

It's only enchantments cast on the dervish

That is one possible way of reading it. It still suggests that a D/Mo is going to have absolutely stunning self-healing and energy management capabilities, and quite possibly any Dervish-primary will, since they're supposed to get self-enchantments.

Even if it's only on yourself, with high Mysticism you get a net gain of 3 energy for every 5-en enchantment you put on yourself, so it could be used to fuel spells targeted at other people. Consider, for example, a D/Mo who can keep himself alive and generate energy by constantly casting Reversal of Fortune and Guardian on himself, and who uses the extra energy to cast spells like Heal Other / Jamei's Gaze, Infuse Health, etc. and act as a decent dedicated healer for his party.

Just imagine the Mysticism + Contemplation of Purity abuse...

And since the description doesn't actually say anything like "cast on you" or "cast by you," there's no guarantee it even has that limit.

Solar_Takfar · Jul 25, 2006, 08:42 PM // 20:42

hmm maybe they'll change it so that it only applies to "dervish enchantments" ended. that might cut a lot of the exploiting.

Ventius Hozza · Jul 25, 2006, 08:47 PM // 20:47

Goodbye Monk/X smiter, Hello D/Mo Smiter! Yay!... -_-

man, they really did co*k it up bigtime

CHUIU · Jul 25, 2006, 09:02 PM // 21:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solar_Takfar

Probably not, and that's why I said it KIND OF (and not TOTALLY) kills the point of D/E. However, "shock" does not integrate well with the skillset of a melee fighter who relies a lot on enchantments to survive (the only point of carrying such a thing would be the knockdown, but the exhaustion would likely make defense very difficult to keep up; besides we don't even know if the scythe will have any skills which benefit from KD).

The Ele skills which would compliment well such a character would be armor-enhancing (armor of earth, magnetic armor, armor of mists), or PBAoE spells, which would overlap with the stuff the Dervish will already get by itself, which in turn -kinda- kills the point of having a D/E, as I said. You might still want to make one to use Conjure spells, but that'd be about it for the effective uses of D/E.

You have no idea how a Dervish will be played so you really can't make those assumptions.

gabrial heart · Jul 25, 2006, 09:13 PM // 21:13

Yeah, the e managment for D/P would be insane. They would basically be invincible. Shouts + enchants could potentially give you back more e then you could possible spend (specially if aegis applied). Which reminds me alot of the book trick (ess bonding aggro tank), which typically gives a monk unlimited e.

The spear thing sounds like a serious mistake, that would be equal to making a ranger's primary attribute marksmanship instead of expertise!

Solar_Takfar · Jul 25, 2006, 09:18 PM // 21:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by CHUIU

You have no idea how a Dervish will be played so you really can't make those assumptions.

We don't know exactly how they're gonna be played, and that's why I said "who knows...".

However, we DO have a good idea of how Dervish will be played, based on anet's description of them, and their list of attributes. They are fighters who will be "at the heart of the battle" (akin to warriors and assassins); they will be "capable of striking at multiple targets simultaneously with their wicked scythes" (that is, PBAoE). "Dervishes can also cast spells on themselves that aid in their assault, and the profession has various healing and protection abilities as well" (spells which will probably come in the form of enchantments, given their primary attribute). Oh, and there's the god transformation thing, too.

As you can see, this is far from having "no idea" how they will be played. We know where they will be (frontline), we know how they'll attack (multi-hitting melee), we know how they'll defend (prot enchantments and healing magic). The only thing missing are the details, which should be out this weekend.